Ep 84: Crafting the Perfect Podcast Guest Pitch – with Sarah Hopkinson

[00:00:00] Verity: Everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Lazy Girl's Guide to Podcasting, where I am joined by Sarah from Copyhop. Sarah was on our previous episode. We were talking all things email marketing and more specifically, how to manage a podcast and an email list without going completely insane. We talked all about how to set up your email list, how to grow your email list, and Sarah gave some amazing top tips for running your email list as a podcaster. So if you haven't listened to that episode, pause, go back, listen to that episode, and then come back to this one and listen to this episode because these episodes, even though we've got Sarah talking about marketing and email copy in both of them, they are very different types of emails. So marketing we are talking all about how to craft an email to pitch yourself to be on a podcast. Now you guys all know that this is something that I'm really passionate about. You know that this is something that gets me really, really irate when I get those DMs and those emails, which I get quite a bit where it is literally just like, hi. I love your podcast. I would love to be on insert podcast name here.

00:01:15 Crafting a Personalized Email Pitch to Be a Podcast Guest

[00:01:15] Verity: Get back to me soon, and then that is just it. Sarah, however, reached out to me with this email of absolute gold about it was just over a month ago, wasn't it? And it was so personalized. It was so beautiful that I was like, I need this person on my podcast because this is just brilliant. So first of all, Sarah, hello, and welcome back to Lazy Girl's Guide to Podcasting. It is wonderful to have you back here again.

[00:01:42] Sarah: Hi, Verity. Great to be back. I'm really looking forward to this conversation too.

[00:01:47] Verity: Oh, I am as well because we get to talk about Taylor Swift in this episode. So you contacted me right after I did the podcast episode all about how the Taylor Swift nude scandal affected my podcast ratings. And for anyone who's thinking Verity, have a hectic Taylor Swift and her fake nudes well, I don't know if her fake nudes, but fake nudes of her affect your podcast, go back. I'm gonna link that episode down in the show notes, and make sure you listen to that episode as well. But you listened to this episode, you wrote me the most personalized email. In fact, do you know what? I'm not gonna read it out word for word because it's just it's just beautiful, but I think I might actually copy it down into the show notes so that if that's okay with you. So anyone could actually read the email, but it's just there's references to the episode. So I knew that you'd listened to it, and I knew that you'd loved it. And I would love this is what I really wanted to get you onto this episode about because I would love you to explain to the lovely listeners of how did you put this email together because it's just it's gold. It's beautiful. And I just got to the end of it and I was like, yes. A 1000% yes. So talk me through your process of how you put together your emails to pitch yourself to be on a podcast.

00:03:09 Effective Podcast Pitching Strategies

[00:03:09] Sarah: Fortunate in the position that I don't have to pitch to appear on every single podcast. I don't need to. So I really go for quality rather than quantity in my pitching. So that for me, my pitching process is quite long because I'll identify a lot of podcasts that I'm potentially interested in appearing on, and I have a whole spreadsheet for that. And then I'll listen to 1 or 2 of their episodes and then evaluate, is this a good match for me? Is it not? And I would only contact them if I think it's a pretty good match for me. And when I'm listening to the podcast, I'm listening with the purpose in mind of is there something that I believe I can bring to this podcast and to the audience that they would want to hear? So I'm listening, and I'm kind of filtering what I'm hearing through that question. And that helps me to catch, information that the podcast host says where I think, oh, that's a really good point. I can reference that. So the email that I sent you when I was listening to your podcast episodes, when I was in that kind of evaluation stage, you said, oh, 2024 is my year of email. So I immediately went, oh, ping. Brilliant. In that case, I think we'd be a good fit, and that's something that I can mention to make sure that my pitch is super targeted, super relevant. So that's the first stage of this kind of evaluation stage, listening to the podcast. People say it. Not a lot of people do it. It really makes a difference. When I decide that I'm gonna pitch the podcast, I make sure that I have their actual email address to pitch to because I hate pitching through those sort of contact me forms. It just doesn't appeal to me at all. So if I can't find that email address on the website, quite often I sign up to their email list, and then there'll be an email address there. And then I think, well, you're emailing me. I can email you. It's fine. It's, you know, that's, that's it that works for me is just not pitching through contact forms. When it comes down to writing the pitch, I have a template that I use, but in my template, it really is just a list of bullet points for the what each paragraph of the email is about, and then I tailor well, I write it with that podcast in mind. So it's it's kind of a template structure, and then I really fill it in with details. And when I'm writing it, I'm really thinking about who's the person who's going to read this, and most of the time I know that that's gonna be the podcast host. Really thinking about that one reader and what they want and how they can help them, and making it easy for them so they don't even have to imagine, oh, I wonder what this guest could talk about. No. I'm telling them. I can talk to your audience about this. This will be helpful because, to do all the legwork so that they have don't have to do any of the legwork. But my, template is roughly along the lines of, oh, a little, I mentioned their podcast right up front and something really specific that I love about their podcast, not just, oh, it's a good podcast. No. I'm I'm referencing a particular fact that I've heard from it or something that made me think or, you know, something that shows I've invested the time to listen. And I make that bit not too long, and then I move into, I'm emailing you for a reason because I love to be on your podcast. And I when I'm on your podcast, I could talk about this specific topic, explain why I'm a good person to talk about that topic. Then at the end of the email, I switch to giving the power back to the podcast host. When you're pitching, obviously, you have to be quite confident in what you're saying, but you don't want to say, I know 100% I'm the absolute best person because you you just don't know. So you say, oh, I think I could be great for these reasons, but I'm gonna leave the decision up to you, the host, because you know your audience best. You know your podcast best. I think this is a good match, but you tell me what you think. And then in a sign in the sign off, I like to just have maybe a nice little joke or another reference to the podcast host.

00:07:40 How to Write a Compelling Pitch Email to Be a Podcast Guest

[00:07:40] Sarah: You know, maybe if they mentioned their dog, I'll be like, oh, and I hope your dog Connie is having a great day too. Something like that that's just nice and light, and then I make sure to tell them how they can get back to me as well.

[00:07:53] Verity: I love that. And I have to say, I'm actually gonna read off your sign out read out your sign off before this email because bearing in mind this was all about, like, Taylor Swift was the episode that you'd listened to. So this was Sarah's sign off. She said, Hope that the sun is shining on you in Jersey, and that Taylor Swift's news scandal didn't leave a blank space in your episode download numbers. Do you and do you know what? I think you had me at that because I was like, I love a good pun.

[00:08:18] Sarah: I love a pun too, and I love Taylor Swift. When I was writing it, I was like, oh, wonder which song of hers I could reference that would work in this context. And then it came to me. I was like, you know, typing it out, hit send. Don't even have to think about it.

[00:08:31] Verity: It was so funny because I got to the end of this and I was like, either this person is hilarious or they have found the next level of chat GPT that can make this level of jokes. And I was like, I don't know which it is, but I need to get back to them. But I think what you're saying there, I think the key part to pick up on is that you were talking about how you, as the potential guest, can serve the podcast and the podcast audience. Because at the end of the day, it's one of those things that a lot of guests seem to think that their appearance is about them. But as you said, it's not. It's about the audience because at the end of the day, if the content isn't for the audience, if the audience aren't going to learn or be entertained or whatever the premise of the podcast is about, then there isn't going to be an audience for that episode and then for that show. And I just think that you hit the nail on the head so completely when you said, you know, it's what can you offer that podcast and that audience? What is it that you can that you can talk about? Because I think that is so important as well. Because, again, I've had people pitch to me where it is a case of, oh, I can come on your podcast. What do you want me to talk about? And I was like, no. I didn't even know that you just didn't know you existed. That sounds really rude, but I didn't I like, I haven't heard from you, or of you 4 minutes prior to me reading this. So as you said, it's about making that process really easy and really personable for a podcaster to immediately go, yes. Or if it's not yes today, because maybe I'm booked for the next 6 months of guests, I love this so much. I'm gonna put a pin in it and I'm gonna get back to you for 6 months time or whenever I've next got space in, in my calendar. So there's somebody who's thinking, right, I wanna start appearing on podcasts. I wanna start, you know, being a podcast guest. How would you recommend somebody sitting down and starting to write their pitch email?

00:10:48 Crafting a Winning Podcast Pitch

[00:10:48] Verity: Because I really wanna pick up on what you said that when you, you said you've got a template, it's actually just bullet points as opposed to insert name here, insert podcast title here. So can you talk to us a little bit more about that?

[00:11:02] Sarah: Ground is in copywriting. So I drew a lot on the lessons I've learned from copywriting to help with crafting these emails, but there are just some really simple techniques that anybody could use. So I would say, for you as a potential guest, you need to be clear about here's the thing that I can offer, and that's where you are sitting in control of the pitch because you don't want to make the podcast host have to imagine, you know, oh, perhaps I could do this or this or this. And as a person writing the pitch, you might be tempted to say, oh, you know, I have all of these expertise, these qualifications, these experiences, so I could talk about any number of things. But, no, it's best to pitch one one definitive topic that you can definitely address. The podcast host can say yes or no. And maybe if they're thinking, oh, that's not quite a good fit, they'll hopefully have your contact details somewhere in that email. Oh, you know, maybe they could check out your website or your social media and say, oh, this particular topic isn't quite as relevant, but I can see that you also talk about that. But it's best, as a starting point, if you pitch yourself as the guest who can talk about this topic. So that's what you really need to that's that's really the body of the pitch that you're sending. And the other things are kind of just an illustration of your commitment. So referencing, previous episode of the podcast is showing that you're this diligent person who's done the research, small details that'll make you stand out. But the most important thing is addressing that central question

[00:12:51] Verity: Absolutely. And getting a Taylor Swift pun in there as well. I'm I'm really I'm really worried now that, like, anyone who pitches on the podcast now is just gonna be in I'm just gonna be in flux with Taylor Swift puns. Only send me a Taylor Swift pun if this is a good one. In fact, only send me a few I I love a good pun, but it has to be a good pun. So that will be my caveat to that, of make sure that it's a good pun. If you're going to send me puns, don't just send me random things which are not funny or funny or anything like that. I think that is just absolute golden advice. And if you don't hear immediately from a podcast pitch that you've beautifully crafted, you've listened to the episode, you've written out this, you know, really great piece of information. You've added a pun or maybe not in there.

00:13:43 Tips for Following Up on Podcast Pitches

[00:13:43] Verity: Whatever works for, you know, whatever works for your style and your email, you know, writing style and what have you. If you don't hear back from the podcaster that you have contacted, maybe, let's say 3 days, 72 hours have gone by, you haven't heard back from them. Should you take that as a no, or what's your what's your take on following up with email pictures?

[00:14:12] Sarah: And from my perspective, because I do like to make my pictures, very personalized, relevant, targeted, I do think that I'm emailing the podcast host as a human being, 1 from one human being to another human being. So in that case, I give myself the right to follow-up about twice on a podcast pitch, much maximum three times, and follow-up. I do make the message a bit shorter. But on my follow-up email, I acknowledge things like, oh, maybe you just got busy or you got distracted. You didn't see my email. And that is totally fine because that's something that I can guarantee that we've all done. So you put it right out there, and you acknowledge it and just kind of move on from it, but then remind them, oh, you know, by the way, I am still here. I can still talk about this topic. But again, I'm reminding you that it's your call to make. So outfit, that is totally okay. So that would structure of a first follow-up email. 2nd follow-up email would perhaps be something like, hey, just checking. I don't know if you saw that email. I am still available to chat, but totally get it if you hear from me. If you want to hear from me, just, you know, get in touch. And then if I was going to send another email after that, I think I would say something like, to signal that you're not gonna bother them forever. Because sometimes people, they don't necessarily want to block your emails or tell you to go away, and they're just like, oh, will this person never leave me? So if I was going to send a last follow-up email, I'd say, this is just so you know, this is the last time that I'm going to say this. You don't have to worry that I'm gonna be hanging around your email inbox for life. I'm just stating my offer out there. If it's not a good fit for you, don't worry. I promise I'm gonna carry on listening to your podcast anyway because I think it's so valuable, and I love what you're doing. And if you want to have me on as a guest, here's just a tiny reminder. Have a great day. Something like that. So you're being persistent without being too aggressive, and you're reminding them all the time of your potential value as a guest, but still reminding them that it's their call to make, and you're very aware that it's their call to make, not your call to make.

00:16:41 Following up with podcast pitches: A conversation with Sarah Mackenzie

[00:16:41] Verity: Definitely. And I love what you're saying about following up as well, because I am a you followed up with me, first of all, with another Taylor Swift reference, which which I liked. So I have to say, no, I liked that because I was like, oh, she hasn't just listened to one episode. She is referencing other episodes, which I really, really liked. It wasn't just a kind of one and done approach. But I am that kind of person who everybody knows that podcasting isn't, you know, all that I do. I have got a job in the weekdays. I've got 2 young kids as well, and I am that person who is notorious for opening up an email and going, oh, yeah. I need to get back to them, and then I don't. And it's not because I'm trying to be rude or because I've forgotten about you, but I I will open an email, and then I'll be like, oh, my lunch break's finished. I'm back at work now. Or, oh, the one of the children needs me or the dog runs in, and you get my point. There will be something that has distracted me from either mess you know, going on the email and notifying it as but, like, you know, those little flags or even marking it as unread. So, actually, whereas you might think, oh, I don't wanna follow-up because I don't wanna bother that person. It can actually be really, really helpful if you're somebody like me who's been like, oh, crap. I completely forgot to get back to them. Yes. I need to email that person back. And, you know, sometimes, maybe that second email, maybe, once again, you opened it and then the one of the children needs you or something happens. So I really like this idea of following up. I mean, some people just won't get back to you and that's just that is what it is, but I do like this idea of following up because I think that's so important. And it's remembering that if people don't get back to you first time, it's not necessarily a no, and it's not necessarily that they don't want you on the show. I mean, sometimes it might be, But, generally, it's because, you know, they've genuinely forgotten or, you know, they passed it to a VA if they've got the luxury of having a VA, and maybe it just haven't got to the top of the to do list yet. Or maybe, you know, they meant to mark the email to read later and didn't hit the right button or something. Or do you know what I've actually done once was I actually, hit completely the wrong button. I deleted an email once and then suddenly, I thought, thank goodness that that I can't remember who it was, but thank goodness that they followed up with me. So I was like, I've but I managed to delete not just delete it, but, like, completely delete it from, like, everywhere. But I was like I was like, I literally can't contact this person even to say email me back because there was nothing. So sometimes, you know, following up, I think, is really, really important. I think that's really key.

[00:19:26] Sarah: Yes. I I frame it in my mind as, obviously, I'd love it if every time I sent out a pitch, I heard back straight away, but that's not realistic. So when I don't hear back, I think, oh, that's a bit disappointing. You know, I allow myself to feel that feeling, but I frame it in my mind as I don't necessarily have a right to be on that podcast. I'm not demanding to claim something that's mine, but I do have a right to state that I would be a good guest and to reiterate that case. So I just I kind of fall back on that position of I can you know, I am still here, and I just want to remind you because I truly believe that this would be a really good fit.

[00:20:13] Verity: That's amazing. And as I said, I am going to link both well, not link, but copy both, your original pitch email and the follow-up email in the show notes. It's gonna be really long show notes, but I think they're gonna be really beneficial for the listeners to this episode to have a read through those and also to have a little bit of a giggle at your, at your puns, which I realize I keep mentioning, but it's because they're good. It's because they're good and, you know, credit where credit's due.

[00:20:41] Sarah: Oh, thank you so much. That's feeding my ego.

[00:20:44] Verity: Oh, I love that. You're gonna be putting a pun in every in every pitch that you send out now. So as you said, your expertise is in copy and email lists and helping podcasters to build their email lists. So where can our lovely audience catch up with you? And also please tell us about your email series that our listeners can, can link themselves up to as well.

00:21:12 Turning Podcast Episodes Into Emails with Sarah Hopkinson

[00:21:12] Sarah: My website is copyhopdot c0, and I also hang out a bit on LinkedIn, Sarah Hopkinson. And we're going to include a link in the show notes. And if you follow it through, you will join my email list, and you're going to receive a mini series of emails from me with all of my best advice and insights about how to turn your podcast episodes into emails that'll help you to develop your relationship with your listeners and to sell products or services to your podcast listeners through email, if that's something that you're aiming to do, and also how to manage both a podcast and an email list at the same time without having your head explode. I've got loads of great advice insights in there, learning things like how to use AI to speed up the process, how to kind of build on your authority as a podcaster, and what numbers you should be tracking to make sure that your emails are doing the job that you want them to do.

[00:22:14] Verity: Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Sarah, for hanging out with with me for not one but 2 episodes. It's been absolutely fantastic chatting, all things email. And, yeah, just thank you so much for all of the invaluable tips that you've given to our listeners over the last two episodes.

[00:22:31] Sarah: You are so welcome. I've really, really enjoyed it. It was worth the

[00:22:35] Verity: Hey, wait. Don't go just yet. If you are still waiting to hit that 1,000 download milestone and beyond, remember, the lazy pod club is where podcast dreams come to life. Visitveritiesongcon.com/membership and I cannot wait to see you on the inside.